Plagiarized by Harvard's President | Dr. Carol Swain | EP 467

Dr. Jordan Peterson sits down with political scientist and author Dr. Carol Swain. They discuss her rise in academia, her early disillusionment with DEI and the liberal agenda on campuses, her journey to faith, her choice to stand against the popular narrative, the gross plagiarism conducted by Harvard’s president, and the continuing fight to reclaim our institutions.

Dr. Carol Swain is a political scientist, author of 12 books, and currently embroiled in a lawsuit with Harvard over their former President, Claudine Gay, who Swain alleges plagiarized her work. Academia is siding with Gay and in the process has redefined plagiarism.

This episode was recorded on July 5th, 2024

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(0:00) Coming up
(0:30) Intro
(2:18) The esteemed career of Dr. Carol Swain
(3:53) Early education, earning a GED
(12:35) Graduate school, mentors, work ethic
(20:02) Managing shyness, early tenure, disillusionment
(25:53) Coming to faith, choosing Christianity
(30:32) Not fitting in but finding your place
(35:38) “I regard myself as a truth speaker”
(36:38) Claudine Gay - woefully underqualified
(40:53) Plagiarism
(48:11) When you don’t align with the victim/victimizer narrative
(56:10) IQ and success rates, disproportionate minorities
(1:05:47) Do not hire someone as a favor
(1:10:43) Cluster B personality disorders
(1:16:14) Pursuing a career in academia, holding the Ivy Leagues accountable
(1:27:00) The fight has just begun
(1:31:42) Be afraid of the right thing: losing your tongue
(1:35:36) DEI is unconstitutional, we need diversity without discrimination

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[joycekapella]

I love Dr. Swain! I also did it the hard way - I am a Certified Public Accountant, even though I only have 15 hours of college. I got a job when I was 20 as a receptionist at an accounting firm and within 6 months I was doing tax returns and financial statements. The partners at the firm convinced me to sit for the CPA exam. So I took the ACT, scored 27, and got special permission to only take accounting courses. Sat for the CPA exam and passed!! 🎉

[mattuo]

I'd love to see Dr. Carol Swain as a possible lecturer for Peterson Academy. What an inspiring story and I loved hearing about her love for the students she taught.

[joeday]

This will definitely be a good one. Carol Swain is everything Claudine Gay would have you believe *she* is - except that Dr. Swain is the real item, and it does not get any more real.

[jonafaria]

It brought me to tears when she said part of her embarrassment at Princeton was that she knew her colleagues could tell she came from poverty~ it’s definitely one of her badges of honor~😌💛

[Fred]

I love Dr Swain; her intellect, integrity and voice are needed today!

[robertjensen]

What's the least diverse profession in the country?
Chief diversity officer.

[olson.pamela]

I am 70 too. I love this woman and I love what she said about being 70. Also, what a pretty lady!

[karigirl]

Thanks so much for interviewing Dr. Swain. She was a heroine of mine before the plagiarism scandal and I didn’t think I could admire her more than I already did. It’s such a pleasure to know I was right about her. I’ve introduced my 20 year old daughter to Dr. Swain’s works as well, so she now has more than one fan of hers in our household.

[WashingtonDC]

I love Dr. Carol Swain. She really is an American treasure just like Thomas Sowell. I love Thomas Sowell. My daughter born in Honduras moved to the USA when she was 14 years old and started in the 8th grade in 2009. I used to live paycheck to paycheck ( I was a single mom with two kids ), my daughter attended four years of college and graduated in 2018 ( in DC I live in DC since December 1998 ), my daughter got her Master's Degree in public health in 2022, and she got pregnant when she was 16 and became mother at 17 years old. Thank you for sharing your story Doctor Carol Swain. God bless you all. Thank you Doctor Jordan B. Peterson. I am so, so thankful that my daughter has given two precious grandsons and my third grandson is going to be born at the August of this year.

[alitreofailment]

Man…. I love Dr. Swain. For someone so accomplished, she speaks with so much humility.

[noahokayama]

You have to be the lowest of low to take credit for other people's ideas and works. Glad she has a chance to actually speak on this from her perspective. Wonderful guest, as usual, Dr. Peterson.

[jimmcfarland]

Never lie to this lady; never dismiss her; never disrespect her; never question her ethics: this is a person who can admit when she's wrong, and does not take lightly to those who impugn her motives. She's an enigma, like a great work of art or poetry or painting, and she's careful with other people's feelings.

Do not ever, ever, ever steal from her! She's not full of pride, but she hates injustice and will not let you take her ideas and present them as your own!

But if you need words of wisdom, she's there for you: one needs to be mentored in order to mentor; one needs to acknowledge having been mentored to be humble enough to mentor others.

[Venator]

Dear Dr. Swain,
Your story is wonderful, tragic, and triumphant.
You made me swell with joy and pride for you, when you spoke on all that you overcame despite your obstacles.
I am going to share your story with others, please remain proud for who you are!
Dear Dr. Swain, please be proud of your southern twang! I am a Kentuckian, you bring me to tears when you talk about your shyness for how you speak.
Be Proud Dr. Swain! Your story should bring honor and pride to southern culture.
You have a wonderful accent and voice, Dr. Swain.

[OwenRooted]

One to watch, Dr J Peterson is a blessing for current and future generations. Vintage!

[kellybrown]

" I don't think you're ever too old to have a mentor" Exactly, Miss Carol! I am a 52 year old passionate, Art History University student and I adore my mentor.

[afringedgentian]

THIS is the conversation I have been looking forward to for MONTHS. I am thrilled to pieces. Dr. Swain is pure class. She is a lady in the truest sense of that often misused word. Dr. Peterson, I do so hope she is invited to teach at Peterson Academy.

Speaking of which, dearest Dr. Peterson, watching your latest with Rogan made me even more excited to jump in this fall after the kids go back to school!
SO excited to listen to Dr. Swain. I enjoyed so much her conversation with Glenn Loury.
Here is a gentle hug for you,
And Ruth Anne’s love

[davidletteer]

Wow, this is crazy that despite her academic achievements (5 degrees) and accomplishments (published multiple books with the Supreme Court sighted her readings as sources for their decisions), the education system isn’t caring to blink in support or recognize to honor her?! That’s completely nuts!
Side note: her successes alone is nothing short of inspirational that can motivate anyone to take action.

[YvensBPhoto]

Dr. Peterson, it's time for Thomas Sowell.

[udiwilg]

To his fellow ex-slaves, Booker T. Washington asked: "why do you choose SLOTH instead of PERSONAL INDUSTRY?"
Dr. Swain captures the essence of THE PRINCIPLE OF SELF-DETERMINATION.... applied to productive ends.

[Abuamina]

Dr. Carol Swain is an extremely intelligent woman and an excellent role model for youth facing challenges. Kudos to her!