Israel vs. Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran — and Itself

It’s been almost a year since Oct. 7. More than 40,000 Palestinians in Gaza are dead. The hostages are not all home, and it doesn’t look like there will be a cease-fire deal that brings them home anytime soon. Israeli politics is deeply divided, and the country’s international reputation is in tatters. The Palestinian Authority is weak. A war may break out in Lebanon soon. There is no vision for the day after and no theory of what comes next.

So I wanted to talk to David Remnick, the editor of The New Yorker. Remnick has been reporting from Israel for decades and has a deep familiarity and history with both the region and the politics and the people who are driving it. He first profiled Benjamin Netanyahu back in 1998. In 2013, he profiled Naftali Bennett, the politician leading Netanyahu in polls of who Israelis think is best suited to be prime minister. And he recently profiled Yahya Sinwar, the head of Hamas in Gaza.

In this conversation, we talk about what Remnick learned profiling Netanyahu, Bennett and Sinwar, as well as where Israel’s overlapping conflicts with Hamas, the Palestinian Authority, Hezbollah and Iran sit after nearly a year of war. Remnick and I were both recently in Israel and the West Bank, as well as near Israel’s border with Lebanon, and we discuss our impressions from those trips.

0:00 Introduction
1:37 Yahya Sinwar
16:20 Lebanon, Hezbollah and Israel's northern border
26:44 Benjamin Netanyahu
34:44 West Bank
50:53 Naftali Bennett and Israel's shifting politics
57:36 Two-state solution and Americans' declining support for Israel
1:01:11 Why Israelis are turning right
1:05:02 Why Israelis prefer Trump over Harris
1:08:20 Book recommendations

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

[samuraijack]

It would be great to have someone from Palestinian side. There is heavy Jewish representation in US media. If you really want have a deep, informed perspective having a Palestinian representation is a must

[robertmusil]

Hi NYT. Do you feel like now issuing a correction to your assertion from last October that "What Israel is fighting to defend is a society that values human life and the rule of law" or will you need more time (i..e more Palestinian death) for a reappraisal of that claim? Or perhaps it is your contention that "more than 40, 000 Palestinians in Gaza are dead" having expired as an unfortunate consequence of old age?

[Killane]

I am Irish and really disgusted with what is going on and feel a great sorrow for the ordinary people of Gasa, Lebanon and Israel. I have become very suspicious of mainstream media and what is mostly biased reporting. This conversation gave me additional perspectives that felt genuine ❤

[trytwicelikemice]

A request for interviews like this... could you date the interview in the info section? It would save us trying to work out when its recorded in the context on ongoing events (in this case the escalation with Hezbollah)

[sah]

New Yorker can’t even find one Palestinian to talk for Palestine, and Palestinians? Shocking!

[HoyaDon]

Ezra, please bring a Palestinian on to talk about the current state of affairs. Please 🙏🏿

[monicaguyomard]

Interesting podcast. I would have liked to listen more about the way Palestiniens feel and understand the history of this conflict since the creation of the state of Israel.

[RayCharound]

another hour of treating one side of the conflict like infirmed children that have zero responsibility for their situation

[squintoo]

11:30 they still will be talkin about "understanding both sides" when Israel has bombed the whole region back into the stone age.

[SouhailEntertainment]

Introduction and Overview of the Current Situation (00:00)
Who is Yahya Sinwar? Background and Influence (01:24)
Life in Israeli Prison and Learning About Israeli Society (03:42)
Sinwar's Hostage Negotiations and Release (08:17)
Hezbollah and the Northern Border Situation (16:37)
American Influence and Biden's Cautionary Approach (20:12)
Potential for a Broader Conflict with Lebanon (21:24)
Israeli Politics and Netanyahu's Grip on Power (28:17)
Naftali Bennett: The Next Potential Prime Minister? (50:41)
Discussion on Religious Nationalism and Political Shifts (51:00)
American-Israeli Relations and Future Generational Shifts (58:24)
Conclusion: Reflecting on Possible Future Outcomes (1:04:43)

[Zirkusman]

What is the name of the Netanjahu documentary?

[Knardsh]

Easy to forget in all the noise of the internet that this level of nuance and balance is, at the least, a small majority in the west. Otherwise the establishment/s wouldn’t have the positions they do. One small sliver of hope.

[GriffinPatrickDavis]

3 minutes in Sinwar “fled” without any context on who he was fleeing from. Got it!

[vereeneparnell]

Thank you for one of the most astute and informative conversations I’ve heard on the Palestinian-Israeli quagmire in a very long time. We need more conversations on all levels.

[rur]

This is one of the most informative podcast I listen to about this conflict. These guys have biases everyone does, but their smart enough to know that.

[natasharay]

Outstanding! A deep and nuanced dive into a complicated subject. I could have listened to another hour. Thank you, Ezra Klein & David Remnick!

[chipparker]

The purpose of the establishment of the state of Israel was to provide a safe place for Jews. By that standard the project of establishing a state for Jews is, after 75 years, a failure.

[freekfaro]

Excellent conversation. Only issue ignored: the unconditional and free supply of American weaponry, without which the situation would be completely different. To which I might add: the complete ignoring of American Palestinians, both by Harris in her campaign rallies in Michigan, and by Democrats in the Senate hearing a few days ago.

[ekaterinagorkhover]

Why in a beginning of this conversation no one bother to mentioned that this Hamas leader not only learned language in prison but also was cured of brain cancer, while in an Israeli prison. The actual mastermind behind the October 7th attacks was someone whose life had been saved by a Jewish oncologist.

[shahpoetix]

David Remnick’s book Lenin’s Tomb is a great read!