PRE-Tribulation Rapture Debate between Derek Walker and Michael Brown – Part 2

Does the Bible Teach a PRE-Tribulation Rapture?
This is part 1 of the special debate between Derek Walker and Dr Michael Brown that has been broadcast on Revelation TV.

Pastor Derek makes the case for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and Dr. Brown for the Post-Tribulation Rapture. Is the Church called to go through the future time of God's wrath? Is the Coming of Christ imminent, or will we face the antichrist first?

Revelation TV:

Derek Walker Website:

Dr Michael Brown

[deborahhowlett]

YES, We have to be ready at at any moment because we could die… this is the imminent concern, that we need always to be ready in case this is our last day.

[sonsofliberty]

He says AFTER the tribulation of those days. The tribulation is indeed 3.5yrs, but the coming is after

[elsanto]

In the same way as Dr. Brown, I came from a pre-trib position, which I was in for most of my life until I finally saw the truth in the scriptures through a plain reading of what they were saying, including what Jesus taught His followers. However, unlike Dr. Brown I see the believers being raptured before the wrath of the Lamb sometime after the opening of the 6th seal but before the opening of the 7th, known as the pre-wrath/post-trib rapture, which pretty much harmonizes with parts of all both pre and post positions. There's an awesome teaching on the pre-wrath rapture called "7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture" which I highly recommend.

[rumblerowdy]

I would like to ask dr brown if God is going to protect His people, then why will there be so many martyrs?

[robwagnon]

Remember when they Angel is about to send some wrath, he is told to wait until God's people are marked...Why would that be necessary if the rapture already happened?

[joannadiaz]

The problem with people who think you won’t be here when the Antichrist is here are the ones that don’t want to be persecuted for the faith . Because you can’t teach rapture to our other brothers and sisters in Christ in countries where they are being killed for the faith today .

[EffectiveLivingForToday]

Dr. Brown, thank you for your spirit of love and competition in Christ, it’s simply amazing!

[vacationsaway]

MW rejects the numbers given by Daniel and the Apostle John in the Revelation. He has to spiritualize the numbers or his system falls. How sad!

[johnfarrell]

The late, great Bruce Forsyth, a UK national treasure, will never really be dead while Michael Brown lives :)

[kayrush]

The falling away is the falling away from the truth. That's why down below you will see that hes giving them over to believe the lie because they believed not the truth.

[garybarry]

Lovely dr brown thanks scripture you are dealing with

[dewalphneal]

ye are the light of the world, the darkness (that wickedness to be revealed) can not come in until the light goes out.

[jbjoeychic]

Again I thought Derek Walker won this debate. I do believe in Pre-trib Rapture known as the blessed hope, so I really was looking for Dr. Brown to convince me of post-trib position, but he only came across as being Snarky.
I am still convinced that the pre-trib Rapture is the correct.
Titus 2:13 mentions hope
1 Corin. 13th chapter has the 3 faith, Love and hope.
Post-tribbers have nothing to hope for.
It is illogical for God the Father to let his bride go through the GREAT TRIBULATION...The day of Jacob's trouble but God will shelter his Bride through that Tribulation. Why is it necessary to do that ?
I ask, would you treat your bride to be this way ? No. You would not !!
Post tribbers make regular men more chivalrous, Loving and caring than God.
There is so much more to say but will stop now.

[kmodha]

The debate was excellent, however, pre-tribe rapture doctrine requires some exegetical gymnastics to shoe horn into the Bible. The 'sudden coming' position does no cohere with Paul's clear teaching in 2 Thess 2, where he describes in detail the sequence of events prior to the second coming. Neither can we ever interpret the word 'Apostasia' in 2 Thess 2:3 to mean 'departure' in the context of Paul's second letter to the Thessalonian because in 1st century Greece it was largely used to describe rebellion or relinquishing of religious belief ie a falling away from religious teaching. Pre-tribulation rapture is an indefensible doctrine and in my view dangerous because it gives the Church false hope that it will be raptured before global persecution against the Church erupts. Is it plausible that this erroneous teaching itself will lead to many 'falling away' when they realize they have not been 'taken out' of the world during the time of the anti-Christ. I don't relish this thought and pray those holding to pre-trib rapture reconsider their position in the light of the straight forward Scriptures.

[vincentella]

First this is not a salvation issue, all believe in Jesus are saved no matter what. Prepare for post-trib, but if we get raptured pre-trib praise God! 🎉🙏🌏

[thecore]

Dr. Brown, as much as I love the man, seems pretty dogmatic about an issue so many respected scholars disagree with him on. Not to say that makes him wrong, but it’s definitely not as obvious as he makes it out to be.

[johnkw]

In v. 3, “The apostasy comes first”, “first” is not referring to “our gathering together to Him” (v. 1), but to “to the effect that the Day of the Lord has come” (v. 2), which is the closer context.

[gabriellafenison]

Regardless if we are caught up before the tribulation or caught up when Jesus returns on the great day of the Lord. Doesn't change the way we're supposed to obey and live for him everyday.


And ironically the people closest to Jesus( the disciples) didn't understand or or correctly interpret the Old testament Prophets correctly during the first coming of Jesus correctly until it already happened. We might not want to be too arrogant and think that we got all the right interpretation of second coming of Jesus figure out. Going to have to wait and see LOL.

The greatest truth is we are going to be with the Lord forever and he has paid the price for our sin, and we will have new bodies and we won't have to debate this stuff anymore lol

[cousmaster]

WHY WOULD GOD USE EXACT DAYS IN DANIEL....THEN AGAIN IN REVELATION....THEN YOU SAY IT COULD BE SPIRITUALIZED????LUDICROUS DR BROWN

[robwagnon]

Sometimes forcing an answer is less wise than saying, I don't know yet:)