The Holy Grail: The Key to Understanding the West | pt.1 | with Richard Rohlin

This is our first Universal History episode on the legend of the Holy Grail. Richard Rohlin and I take a deep dive into the origin of the Holy Grail, how relics convey power and how the Grail forms an integral part of the story of the West.

To build this thread Richard explores 3 sources: the Celtic tradition and particularly their understanding of relics (pt.1), what we'll call the Iberian Virgin and her Holy Grail (pt.2), and finally the cloth that contains the face and body of Christ (pt.3).

Book and articles mentioned:

Richard Rohlin’s work:

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Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:39 Richard’s take on God’s’Dog
08:02 Contents of today’s discussion
09:27 Pt.1: Relic objects in the Celtic tradition
13:44 The altar and the fish
18:28 The forms of the Grail
20:40 How relics convey power
23:56 The Stone of Anointing
26:35 The key idea of the Holy Grail
28:34 Pt.2: The Grail’s connection to the Ascension & Pentecost
37:10 Pt.3: The cloth containing the body of Christ
44:14 Joseph of Arimathea
50:24 The meaning of the unattainable Grail
01:00:15 Outro

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- My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

[TremendumTripolisPleme]

Great topic! I am Orthodox Serbian, and we have epic songs, oraly transmitted, hundreds of them, written down by Vuk Karadžić in 19th century. They centre around battle of Kosovo, fought in 14th. century.

[codyalacarte]

Western Christendom plunged into scholasticism, philosophy, rationality; mysticism didn’t go away completely per se, but as a focus, it did get pushed to the sideline in favor of systematic theology. Many in the East point to this as the causation of modern man’s eventual sinking into materialism, but my hypothesis is this vacuum caused the fantasy literature renaissance in the west. Authors like J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, G.K Chesterton, Ronald Knox composed these wonderful stories full of mystery and ancient theological tropes. Mystical concepts may have disappeared from the seminaries but were invigorated on the pages of western literature.

I had a deeply moving spiritual encounter when I was eight years old. I answered the altar call. I was very young, and it was emotionally based, but to this day I do not discredit it's authenticity: it was a personal glimpse into the eyes of Love and Truth. But then I grew up. I faded away- not unlike similar evangelicals my age who also had their faith anchored in feelings or revival type experiences. In college I was somewhere in between agnostic in lifestyle and disenfranchised nondenominationalism in creed. However, fostered by my love of fantasy literature, in particular the Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings, the eight-year-old Cody never died and he always tugged me back to that magical childhood religious experience. Good authors, like all talented artists, invoke the feeling that beauty, truth, and holiness are somehow all tangibly intertwined. They make you know, in the pit of your stomach, that good and evil are concrete realities. One just needs to go on an epic quest to find them.

This is why I believe, or at least suspect that Story is sacramental in nature. There is a connection between good literature and true mysticism. The entirety of the Scriptures is one overarching narrative of mankind’s relationship with the supernatural (The God of Israel and His angels) and preternatural (fallen spiritual beings).

The old Baltimore Catechism defines a Sacrament as, “A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.” I’m not saying that storytelling is a Sacrament but Jesus exclusively taught in parables – stories. And He is the Logos, the primordial Word ‘story’ of the Father. Deep within our ethos we are programmed for story, for myth, for tale.

Story is quasi-sacramental; referring to the Baltimore catechism once more, “A sacramental is anything set apart or blessed by the Church to excite good thoughts and to increase devotion, and through these movements of the heart to remit venial sin.” Good story has had that result in many. Tolkien used these concepts to reach his agnostic friend Lewis and he was given the Grace of conversion. I too, had the faith kept alive, as a small spark within my imagination due to graceful storytelling.

The stories we tell, matter.
The stories we listen to, matter.
The stories we pass on, matter.

[sitbunnynow]

I'm re-watching this because I found it so helpful the first time. One (small) point of disagreement: I don't think it's fair to say that magic in Harry Potter is utterly disconnected from virtue.

Throughout the series, it is consistently implied that the deepest, most profound magic is connected with virtue, particularly the virtue of love, which is why Harry is able to defeat Voldemort, most obviously in the final book, but at other points too, such at the end of the first one when only the one who wants the stone but does not want to use it can ever possess it.

Interestingly, part of why Voldemort cannot be victorious is that he dismissed fairy tales and folk stories as unimportant, but Dumbledore and the three protagonists follow the Tale of the Three Brothers to the Hallows.

They aren't perfect books, but I think they are seriously informed by Rowling's Christianity.

[barbararey-constantin]

Marvelous. I would love to hear a whole series about The Grail and King Arthur etc. Thank you very much.

[printzofbrentz______]

Extremely interesting, it’s almost like the east and west need each other..

[ailius]

Calling out the fact the thumbnail is from Indiana Jones.

[cidklutch]

YASSSS!!!! this is what I needed today :)

Just attended my first divine liturgy on Sunday btw, it was beautiful but my protestant mind felt very lost haha.

[phonepunk]

Really love this series. Learning about traditional legends is far more interesting and rewarding than modern media IMO.

[kilpscollective]

Literally just thinking this morning how I need another world history video with Jonathan and Richard. Praise the Lord.

[northamericanthebaid]

Regarding the Mother of God being in the Pentecost icon (34:30f), it is clear from Acts 1:13-14 that "Mary the Mother of Jesus" was there with the Eleven and the other women in the upper room praying together following the Ascension of the Lord. The way Luke connects Acts 1:14 to 2:1 and the outpouring the Holy Spirit at Pentecost shows complete consistency in the members of their company being together and devoted to prayer.

[georgioiopelan]

Its like an Oxford seminar, as they used to be, full of grit, God, gritty humor, truth, self study, insight. I skip out lighter, happier w/ a Big Idea Making Me Stronger. May God Bless you guys into eternity!

[lucascheirador]

Wow that's awesome, I can't believe I watched this for free. God bless you all

[RefineIrony]

The Holy Grail is pretty much the Holy Grail of Holy Grail lore..

It's that important, culturally

[loganm]

I was literally just talking with my wife yesterday about how I wanted to learn more about the Grail without the modernist reading. Thank you both!! This is a wonderful video!!

[RAM-imxf]

Absolutely fascinating. I do not identify myself with the West because I am Korean-Canadian.

Regardless, it was super easy to listen to, not to mention relaxing and very informative for uninformed individuals like myself.

[JumbaGumba]

These talks with Richard are my favourite :D

[Joe-pibx]

Makes me think of Fridays in lent. Symbolically eating the eucharist rather than other meat. Abstaining from the world and partaking in what saves us. What a pattern!

[connorbergeron]

I look forward to this series more than any other podcast series

[annagokieli]

The Image you used as the cover for the video I first saw in Indiana Jones as a kid, I was probably 12 years old, that sparked my entire curiosity and pursuit of faith and truth ! Very profound scene !!

[ronlennon.amorocity]

Jonathan Pageau ...
I discovered your work by way of Dr. Jordan Peterson. I just wanted to thank you and let you know that you and Dr. Peterson, along with the others in your field doing similar work in the world, you have all made a huge positive impact on my life.
My spiritual journey has been quite volatile to say the very least. I was born Catholic, very Catholic. As a child I remember having this sorta general feeling of dread when it came to church, and I quite vividly shared in the terror of Joyce's depiction of Heaven and Hell. I can't tell you how many sincere and heartfelt prayers I sent up to God from the innocence of my lonely childhood bedroom, only to be met with the most definitive and conclusive silence.
As I grew into young adulthood, I found myself stumbling through an environment that did not lend itself compatibly to my gentle and curious nature. I subsequently, set about fashioning an ego that was better suited (or so I thought) to the harsh realities in which I was immersed. It did not take long for this travesty of self I had created to land me in the Spartan comforts of a prison cell.
From the ages of 20 to about 50 I ended up spending roughly 21 years in the state penal institutions of Pennsylvania, my sentences ranging from 2 to 4 years in length. It was an endless nightmare of drug addiction and recidivism, spanning the 30 aforementioned years.
Fortunately, during those years I decided to educate myself. I read philosophy, economics, classic literature, history, poetry biology, chemistry, etc... I even explored the eastern philosophy of the Vedas. In using my time to educate myself in this way, coupled with my utter ignorance of true meaning behind religious symbolism, I became a devout atheist... Devout!
I will concede, however, that the much less dogmatic tenets of eastern wisdom literature did quite a bit to blur the hard line I was drawing in my heart and mind with regard to the spiritual realm. My atheism slowly began to give way to a sort of open-minded agnosticism.
I then stumbled upon Dr. Peterson's "12 Rules" while I was in the prison library waiting to check out. I sat and examined the table of contents, and then curiously fanned through its beautiful and enlightening pages. I couldn't put it down. I didn't put it down until I had read it ...several times. Prior to reading 12 Rules, I had read some Freud, Jung, and Dostoyevsky, and was somewhat familiar with their major works. I had also, just recently finished reading Campbell's "Hero with a 1000 Faces", which brought me several steps closer to understanding this journey. However, it wasn't until discovering Dr Peterson, that I realized just how much of this literature I was reading that I did not quite apprehend. It's, after all, quite profound and dense material. Dr. Peterson (12 Rules, Maps of Meaning, and his Biblical YouTube series) just had a way of crystalizing years of truth seeking into this eloquent and enlightening message which paves the way for me to put together all the pieces of this profound symbolic puzzle in such a way that I was now able to see the spiritual picture that had eluded me for so long.
I was thoroughly convinced and believed that my quest for "The Holy Grail" was over. All my years of searching had paid off, and I now understood what this was all about.

And then, via Dr. Peterson, I found your work, and I was blown away. Much like Dr. Peterson, you have a way of explaining these spiritual symbols, concepts and ideas in such a way that makes the truth of it all, not just easy to understand, but truly and unequivocally obvious.
So for that, and for your years of dedication to your own quest for truth, I solemnly thank you.