Shroud of Turin & Jesus’ Passion | feat. Bill Wingard

The Shroud of Turin should, above all, lead people to an encounter with Jesus through a profound meditation on his suffering and death for our sins, and his glorious Resurrection. Bill Wingard seeks above all to bring that message to everyone he meets, and he joins us to today to do just that. What can the Shroud reveal to us about Christ’s passion and Resurrection? Look no further!

LINKS/RESOURCES:

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End Credit Music: "Pages Turn" from the Drift album by Kuyani (Music Publisher: Artlist Original Music; Composed & Arranged by Garrett Bevins)

[NarnianLady]

Hallelujah. Thank you Lord Jesus. Even though I have believed in Jesus for years, and known the Gospel to be true, the details of crucifixion shown in the Shroud strenghtened and encouraged my faith.. to remember that He bore my sins and sicknesses on His precious Body. Thank you, thank you, thank you for Your compassion and pity on us.

[cindysheltmire]

Wonderful discussion. Thank you for spotlighting the Shroud--the most important artifact on the planet. It provides proof in our secular age of the historical Jesus, confirms that the crucifixion took place exactly as depicted in the Scriptures, and provides irrefutable proof of the resurrection. The word must be spread!

[christophercoughlin]

They also say that many of the temple priests became believers when they saw the temple veil, which was 30 feet high and four inches thick, torn in two when the sky darkened and there was an earthquake in Jerusalem.

[timsaliba]

Very interesting discussion. Excellent insight into the shroud. I just did not understand the comment about Muhammad being a good guy. Very troubling knowing what we know about him.

[suzannecreavey]

I enjoyed this informative episode. Thank you!

[christophercoughlin]

He would not have gone through what He did if the consequences of not believing were not dire indeed.

[lynnekelley]

Having attempted ro watch Gracious Guest whenever you interview someone regarding the Shroud, I can't recall anyone spending so much time reminding us of what Christ endured, in detail. And, in this interview, Mr. Wingard explained that Jesus had a preview of His coming suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane. Is there any wonder why His tears came out mixed with blood?

[BarneyGoogle]

Another excellent interview. I wish only that you'd list some of the books mentioned. The "Walsh" book-- I didn't get the title, and the Pierre Barbee (sic) book, Dr of Calvary (?).

[francis]

I come from a tradition that is more gnostic and shamanic and I also know that the Shroud of Turin is the image of the invisible god and many yogies from India have confirmed this

[WinItReigns]

The Beard is lookin fantastic Bro.

You should grow your hair long now too

[christophercoughlin]

You can count on the world for bias, presumption, injustice, persecution, stupidity, ignorance, and refusal to listen to the truth. among many other things. That's why not everybody will believe and not everybody will be saved, "For the way is narrow and few there are who find it".

[J-]

💐💐💐💐💐 The Bible says the original shroud was not in ONE piece as in the case of the shroud of Turin:

“Peter and the other disciple started out for the tomb. They were both running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he didn’t go in. Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus’ head was folded up and lying apart from the other wrappings.”
(John 20:3-7)

Based on the biblical narrative and rational reasoning, we have to accept that the resurrection of Jesus or any of the prophets or individuals within the biblical narrative, i.e., they are spiritual and not physical resurrections even when literal words are used. Here are the biblical reasoning behind what is being said:

Jesus called himself “the resurrection” even before he was crucified:

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die”.
(John 11:25 NIV)

This was Jesus himself who was speaking. He is making it crystal clear that it was the belief in him and his teachings that must be truly considered as true resurrection and not the crucifixion and belief in the reanimation of his physical body. It was the belief in him and his words which revived those who were spiritually dead, and brought them forth from their tomb of ignorance. This is all spiritual and not physical:

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”
(John 6:63 NIV)

What does the Bible teach about the physical body and resurrection? It says:

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications”…
(Hebrew 5:7 KJV)

Therefore, the Bible teaches that Jesus had flesh or a physical body during his life on earth but that there came a time when he was no longer in possession of a physical body (he was a Spirit/Soul) . Read the whole chapter so you can see the whole content.

What else does the Bible teach about physical body or flesh? Apostle Paul himself stated:

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption“.
(1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV)

Therefore, no physical body which is a perishable biological entity can have any association or entrance into the Kingdom of God. After all, the Bible teaches that:

“God is a Spirit” (John 4:24 KJV)

and not a physical body, and that the Word which is Christ himself had existed as a Spirit (a nonphysical entity) long before even the creation of what we call earth.

The Bible teaches that all that Jesus taught 2000 years ago were all revealed by the Father. Jesus made sure to tell Simon that flesh and blood are not important in this equation——not even his:

“Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.”
(Matthew 16:17 NIV)

Everything Jesus Christ taught and spoke, about his flesh and body had a spiritual meaning and cannot be taken literally even though Jesus Christ was using “literal words” (check the Greek lexicon) related to “flesh and blood”:

“Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
(John 6:53-58 NIV)

Those who took him “literally”, later on they were accused of being cannibals. Read the history and this will become clear to you. Therefore, much of the language that Jesus used must be viewed and interpreted allegorical or symbolic.

Jesus taught that it is the spirit that matters and not the flesh. The body has no importance:

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”
(John 6:63 NIV)

People had a very hard time understanding the symbolic and allegorical language that Jesus used——this frustrated Jesus often and said:

“Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.”
(John 8:43 NIV)

The phrase, “unable to hear” that Jesus Christ uses is obviously not a literal physical hearing but the inability to hear his words with spiritual hearing. Consider this that if people 2000 years ago had a hard time understanding Jesus Christ, there is no wonder why there are over 43, 000 conflicting sects within Christianity. This should humble all Christians.

What else can we learn from the topic of resurrection and spiritual truths? Well, Mary Magdalene couldn’t recognize Jesus after the resurrection:

“At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
(John 20:14-15 NIV)

If this was a “literal”, glorified, bodily resurrection of Jesus, why did he appear like the gardener and was not recognized by Mary? Apparently Jesus did not look glorified, he just looked like someone else——not a shining angel, but like the gardener.

We also read that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared quite differently to apostle Paul:

About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ “ ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting, ’ he replied.”
(Acts 9:4 KJV)

Others who were with Paul did not see anything. A physical body is not invisible. Everyone should be able to see it. Moreover, physical bodies cannot go through doors and walls either, but yet, Jesus appears into a room with the disciples when all doors were locked:

“A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
(John 20:26 NIV)

So, what is my point? The point is Jesus Christ can do whatever he wishes. He can dematerialize from one place and materialize in another place. He can appear as a flash of light from heaven to one person, or as a gardener to another, and he can even eat a piece of fish right in front of you to prove he can do anything. Therefore, we are not questioning what Christ can or cannot do, however, when it comes to the physical resurrection, all the stories we read about his appearances, do not indicate the essential characteristics of the physical body of Jesus Christ as the flesh that he had before his crucifixion, and the Bible in numerous verses makes this very clear. More importantly, if we believe that Jesus Christ has been great eternally in the past without a physical body and long before he was even born, then, he was not in need of a physical body after his crucifixion either, just as Moses and Elijah didn’t need physical bodies either, when they both had appeared to Jesus Christ on Mount Tabor and then vanished from the sight. Why should anyone assume that after Jesus Christ’s physical birth from the womb of Mary, he had, forever, trapped his true eternal reality in some physical body whether it is assumed to be a regular body or some so called glorified body? To insist on this, is tantamount to limiting Jesus Christ to our earthly limitations. The Bible makes it clear that the resurrection of Jesus has much deeper spiritual meanings and should never be interpreted as a literal physical event.

Please note that stating that Christ’s resurrection was a spiritual event and not a physical one, doesn’t mean Jesus Christ was incapable of the supernatural powers——it is that Jesus didn’t need any form of a physical body, and that his greatness transcends beyond any connection with the physical reality. Moreover, in numerous passages, the body of Christ has been interpreted to be the body of the believers or the church itself, and therefore, the resurrection is a spiritual reality which demonstrates the spiritual triumph of the cause of Christ, symbolized as a “body” which is none other than the body of the believers rising to promulgate his cause (the body) fearlessly:

“And the church is his body”…

(Ephesians 1:23 NLT)

…”and build up the church, the body of Christ.”

(Ephesians 4:12 NLT)

“Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body.“

(Colossians 1:18 MLT)

“And we are members of his body.”

(Ephesians 5:30 NLT)

“All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it.“

(1 Corinthians 12:27 NLT)

Resurrection of all the manifestations of God are spiritual in nature and not physical or material. I have studied the Bible and continue to study it.

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.….” (John 6:63 NIV)

[leadanon]

You are all deceived. Truth is in John 20:6, 7.

[twomeelkeel]

Not a shred (pun on shroud) of science. All WISHING it is true. Blind faith

[J-]

💐💐💐💐💐 The Bible says the original shroud was not in ONE piece as in the case of the shroud of Turin. This is why the shroud of Turin is fake:

“Peter and the other disciple started out for the tomb. They were both running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he didn’t go in. Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus’ head was folded up and lying apart from the other wrappings.”
(John 20:3-7)

Also, as a member of the Baha’i Faith, and based on the biblical narrative and rational reasoning, we have to accept that the resurrection of Jesus or any of the prophets or individuals within the biblical narrative that they are spiritual and not physical resurrections even when literal words are used. Here are the biblical reasoning behind what is being said:

Jesus called himself “the resurrection” even before he was crucified:
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die”.
(John 11:25 NIV)

This is Jesus himself speaking, so it was the belief in him and his teachings that accounted as true resurrection and not the crucifixion and belief in the reanimation of the physical body. Belief in him and his words revived those who were spiritually dead and brought them forth from their tomb of ignorance. This is all spiritual and not a physical phenomenon.

What does the Bible teach about the physical body and resurrection? It says:

“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications”…
(Hebrew 5:7 KJV)

Therefore, the Bible teaches that Jesus had flesh or a physical body during his life on earth but that there came a time when he was no longer in possession of a physical body (he was a Spirit/Soul) . Read the whole chapter so you can see the whole content.

What else does the Bible teach about physical body or flesh? Apostle Paul himself stated:

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption“.
(1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV)

Therefore, no physical body which is a perishable biological entity can have any association or entrance into the Kingdom of God. After all, the Bible teaches that:

“God is a Spirit” (John 4:24 KJV)

and not a physical body, and that the Word which is Christ himself had existed as a Spirit (a nonphysical entity) long before even the creation of what we call earth.

The Bible teaches that all that Jesus taught 2000 years ago were all revealed by the Father. Jesus made sure to tell Simon that flesh and blood are not important in this equation——not even his:

“Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.”
(Matthew 16:17 NIV)

Everything Jesus Christ taught and spoke, about his flesh and body had a spiritual meaning and cannot be taken literally even though Jesus Christ was using “literal words” (check the Greek lexicon) related to “flesh and blood”:

“Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”
(John 6:53-58 NIV)

Those who took him “literally”, later on they were accused of being cannibals. Read the history and this will become clear to you. Therefore, much of the language that Jesus used must be viewed and interpreted allegorical or symbolic.

Jesus taught that it is the spirit that matters and not the flesh. The body has no importance:

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”
(John 6:63 NIV)

People had a very hard time understanding the symbolic and allegorical language that Jesus used——this frustrated Jesus often and said:

“Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.”
(John 8:43 NIV)

The phrase, “unable to hear” that Jesus Christ uses is obviously not a literal physical hearing but the inability to hear his words with spiritual hearing. Consider this that if people 2000 years ago had a hard time understanding Jesus Christ, there is no wonder why there are over 43, 000 conflicting sects within Christianity. This should humble all Christians.

What else can we learn from the topic of resurrection and spiritual truths? Well, Mary Magdalene couldn’t recognize Jesus after the resurrection:

“At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
(John 20:14-15 NIV)

If this was a “literal”, glorified, bodily resurrection of Jesus, why did he appear like the gardener and was not recognized by Mary? Apparently Jesus did not look glorified, he just looked like someone else——not a shining angel, but like the gardener.

We also read that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared quite differently to apostle Paul:

About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ “ ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting, ’ he replied.”
(Acts 9:4 KJV)

Others who were with Paul did not see anything. A physical body is not invisible. Everyone should be able to see it. Moreover, physical bodies cannot go through doors and walls either, but yet, Jesus appears into a room with the disciples when all doors were locked:

“A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
(John 20:26 NIV)

So, what is my point? The point is Jesus Christ can do whatever he wishes. He can dematerialize from one place and materialize in another place. He can appear as a flash of light from heaven to one person, or as a gardener to another, and he can even eat a piece of fish right in front of you to prove he can do anything. Therefore, we are not questioning what Christ can or cannot do, however, when it comes to the physical resurrection, all the stories we read about his appearances, do not indicate the essential characteristics of the physical body of Jesus Christ as the flesh that he had before his crucifixion, and the Bible in numerous verses makes this very clear. More importantly, if we believe that Jesus Christ has been great eternally in the past without a physical body and long before he was even born, then, he was not in need of a physical body after his crucifixion either, just as Moses and Elijah didn’t need physical bodies either, when they both had appeared to Jesus Christ on Mount Tabor and then vanished from the sight. Why should anyone assume that after Jesus Christ’s physical birth from the womb of Mary, he had, forever, trapped his true eternal reality in some physical body whether it is assumed to be a regular body or some so called glorified body? To insist on this, is tantamount to limiting Jesus Christ to our earthly limitations. The Bible makes it clear that the resurrection of Jesus has much deeper spiritual meanings and should never be interpreted as a literal physical event.

Please note that stating that Christ’s resurrection was a spiritual event and not a physical one, doesn’t mean Jesus Christ was incapable of the supernatural powers——it is that Jesus didn’t need any form of a physical body, and that his greatness transcends beyond any connection with the physical reality. Moreover, in numerous passages, the body of Christ has been interpreted to be the body of the believers or the church itself, and therefore, the resurrection is a spiritual reality which demonstrates the spiritual triumph of the cause of Christ, symbolized as a “body” which is none other than the body of the believers rising to promulgate his cause (the body) fearlessly:

“And the church is his body”…

(Ephesians 1:23 NLT)

…”and build up the church, the body of Christ.”

(Ephesians 4:12 NLT)

“Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body.“

(Colossians 1:18 MLT)

“And we are members of his body.”

(Ephesians 5:30 NLT)

“All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it.“

(1 Corinthians 12:27 NLT)

Resurrection of all the manifestations of God are spiritual in nature and not physical or material. I have studied the Bible and continue to study it.

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.….” (John 6:63 NIV)