Is DEI Doomed? An HR Director Speaks! (Ft. Neil Morrison)

In this ground-breaking episode, a sensible, experienced, centrist HR director busts multiple taboos - answering questions about how and why DEI has gone wrong in so many organisations. Neil Morrison, group HR director at Severn Trent, gets into race, disability, trans inclusion, Israel/Gaza… the lot. We cover:

- Was it a mistake for brands to rush in with statements about Black Lives Matter?
- Why are so many DEI professionals overstepping their role into policing employees’ words – and sometimes even their thoughts?
- What problems is bad practice in DEI creating for organisations internally? (Think productivity, retention and grievances?
- Is it time to consider the impact on recruitment and employer brand? For example, have John Lewis's bold statements around gender identity put some people off applying to work there?

Could this conversation be a turning point for HR? The start of a collective effort to investigate where we’ve lost our way, and how to navigate a path to ways of working that are more productive – and genuinely inclusive? Let's hope so.

This was such a brilliant conversation that we've split it into three episodes - this is the first. Episodes 7 and 8 (coming soon) will cover:

- Whose fault are the DEI-related lawsuits – and are organisations taking notice?
- Have staff networks suffered from mission creep – and where is the quality control for external training?
- Why are so many Heads of DEI behaving like activists?
- Can HR directors continue to ignore the problems that bad DEI is creating? (Spoiler: No!)
- Should DEI professionals start looking for new jobs?

If you love or loathe DEI, this conversation will challenge you. If you take a centrist view and think it's time for HR professionals to start talking more honestly about the challenges that our organisations face, it will feel like a breath of fresh air. Here’s to more discussion - enjoy the episode!

PS. If this conversation chimes with you, our podcast host Tanya de Grunwald is collecting senior HR professionals who share Neil's view that bad practice in DEI is proving to be problematic, with the aim of finding solutions together. If this is you, please contact Tanya via LinkedIn. Thank you!

#DEI #edi #hr #business #podcast

Watch/listen on YouTube, Spotify or Apple Podcasts

[tish]

I had compulsory Diversity Training for a number of years but noticed an unwillingness to discuss where rights clash. This was in the comtext of Black converts to Islam demanding a female be removed from teaching them engineeering…This was at an FE college and I was in a university. The answer I got was that overseas agents were allowed ro demand to deal with a male instead of the female head of department. This was ten years ago and where I realised we were getting it wrong.

[bettybray]

Great discussion. I hope everyone is aware that there’s a SEEN in HR group for anyone that needs support or wants to contribute.

[toemas]

It’s amazing that HR departments are often the least diverse departments in any organisation… usually filled with white women. The problem is DEI is seen as diversity in one direction. Also I have seen young inexperienced women put in senior roles that no male with the same level of experience would get. A lot of these women can be exceptionally entitled and ironically treat staff like garbage.

[kevinmaltby]

*DISCLAIMER: The following is not intended as a call for riot, violence or criminal activity nor intended as hatred or anti-establishment rhetoric. Nor is it intended as spreading mis-information. Any statements should be independently checked by the reader.*
Following a _mandatory_ 'value everyone course' at one employer I asked the 'DEI Officer' what justification was there for including the phrase 'white privilege' within the course materials, and if she (these DEI officers always tend to be female, _biological_ female) had any evidence of the company discriminating against non-white people. Her response was that no _actual evidence_ or cases of discrimination _existed_ but there were _suggestions_ of discrimination given in the responses of employee surveys.
So this individual, who produces _nothing_ of value i.e. does not contribute to a product that is sold and brings money into the company and who is therefore only a _cost_ to the company had the audacity to justify an anti-white racist term on the basis of rumours, gossip and individuals' personal perceptions. To cap it all, as she was in a senior position, she no doubt was getting paid far more than those that produce something for the company!

Does no one see why white-males are becoming enraged by this DEI non-sense?

I also noted she worked in a department full of women yet there were no attempts at diversification i.e. have a few blokes in there in _senior_ positions.

[PotterSpurn]

I've found that a DEI enthusiasts are typically white, middle class metropolitan elite types (those who run the BBC) who see their allegiance to Wokery as some kind of membership to an elitist middle class club that many can't aspire to - all left wing - that differentiates them from the pleb aspirants (mainly right wing) they look down upon - those who now all possess degrees - like they have, have bought homes - like they have, run cars - like they do, and so can basically do and are doing which they don't like - because these things are what only the old middle classes could do pre- the era of technological IT age. It's a form of inverted snobbery to re-create a new class structure likely to most disadvantage those who are aspirational rather than privileged.

When I used to temp at the BBC back in the 80s, the place was overrun with posh sloaney hooray henry private school types who worked Tues-Thurs before going to the country at the weekends, all carrying Gucci bags but earning £7k a year and living off trust funds. So essentially, the same sneering snobbery exists, but in a different form. I've met too many of these. They are horrible, lack empathy and are unwilling to side with ordinary people who have what they have - but who take the majority view that DEI is a destructive culturally diversive force that ultimately disadvantages everyone. Meanwhile, the Woke elite who believe their poo doesn't smell and that they are the ultimate virtue signallers are the first to run furthest and fastest if the negative impacts of DEI were ever to rain on their shoulders or those of their family, rather than just rain on the shoulders of those they most despise.

In many ways, these Woke enthusiasts see themselves as Champions - the overseers of social change, tackling the big three issues of the day: race, gender and climate - a modern day version of the old Fabians who also took a big sisterly bossy approach to telling those they patronised and looked down upon, how best to live - for their own good, of course.

[edbop]

WHAT IS POLITICS? did an interesting video on this were he discusses the issues with words such as equity, i.e a vague term implying either equality of outcome or equality of opportunity depending on what is convenient to the person using it; definitely worth a watch. Personally I think much of the issue comes from the fact that many of people that go into HR come from doing sociology or gender studies degrees which don't give you the grounding in history, politics, economics and philosophy that one needs to truly understand social change. This means that when they are told by their lecturers that all issues come down to racissm or the patriarchy; these extremely simplistic explanations are accepted without question; then those people bring their simplistic perceptions into the workplace, projecting them onto any issue; which ultimately creates a toxic atmosphere.

[jablot]

I remember when we had a personnel manager, they did the pay, training relevant to the job, like fire drills, sorted out problems face to face and were generally the go to person if anything needed sorting. How we have some faceless HR department who just seem to make up complete rubbish, like diversity, and force people to go on courses. Thankfully most of it is now on a computer, click next, click next and answer a few simple question.

[Goit_Goit]

The best jobs I've ever had didn't possess a HR department.

[albedopoint]

Your interviewee is interesting, but for me he started on a back foot by not being transparent about the role of HR in an enterprise.

I always tell the people I manage ‘HR isn’t your friend - you know they’re there primarily to protect the business from the employees?’.

HR folk seem to think they’re there for the ‘fluffy stuff’, but development and growth is primarily the job of direct business line management.

In the context of this discussion, HR have to assist in making the company appear welcoming, and to help prevent employees from upsetting each other or the company itself.

[CameraMystique]

*How to financially hurt 3 women: fire their father from his job for DEI purposes.*

[scatton]

We don't need more women in any scenario unless the women want to be there and they got that position on merit. I was with him right up to that moment. In fact it could be argued that as more women have become involved in the workplace things have got increasingly worse. The HR Department and DEEI initiative is almost entirely staffed by women.

[anaxscotia]

"occupational segregation" = "occupational preference"

[advocate]

It's dying. Amazing what belt tightening will do.

[charlesd]

Wtf has the Palestinian conflict got to do with HR?