Dune, Islam & Religion

In this episode, we explore the fascinating world of Dune and the religious themes that we can find in the books and movies.

Support Let's Talk Religion on Patreon:
Or through a one-time donation:

Music by:
Filip Holm

Sources/Recomended Reading:

Amir-Moezzi, Mohammad Ali (1994). "The Divine Guide in Early Shi'ism: The Sources of Esotericism in Islam". Translated by David Streight. State University of New York Press.

Amir-Moezzi, Mohammad Ali (2011). "The Spirituality of Shi'i Islam: Beliefs and Practices". I.B. Tauris.

Chittick, William (1989). "The Sufi Path of Knowledge: Ibn 'Arabi's Metaphysics of Imagination".

Chittick, William (1998). "The Self-Disclosure of God: Principles of Ibn al-'Arabi's Cosmology". State University of New York Press.

Corbin, Henry (1998). "Alone with the Alone - Creative Imagination in the Sūfism of Ibn 'Arabī". Princeton University Press; Revised edition.

McNelly, Willis E. (1987). "The Dune Encyclopedia". Berkley.

#dune #islam #religion

[LetsTalkReligion]

Update: I have now read the (first) book, finally. Greatly enojoyed it. Aside from the already pointed out errors below, my analysis remains unchanged.

As usual, some corrections:
- I refer to the "male Bene Gesserit". This is based on information in the Dune Encyclopedia, where they talk about the males of the lineage back on earth lost the ability of the other memory. My mistake here was calling these males "Bene Gesserit" at all, since this history takes place way before that name or the form of the order was etablished much later, at which point it is a female order exclusively. The ancestors of the Bene Gesserit lived back on earth, and those are the people I am referring to in the video.
- It also appears that the particular way I describe the Butlerian Jihad as a "machine uprising" comes more so from the writings of Brian Herbert, and that this event might have bee conceived differently in the original novels.
- The "water of life" doesn't necessarily appear to be the actual blood of the worms itself.

[johnlogan]

One correction: The Butlerian Jihad wasn't a machine upraising, that was a far later interpretation by Frank Herbert's son. In the first 6 books it was humans using machines the control other humans; think something like mass Ai surveillance and monitoring to empower a small elite, not Skynet.

[ecta]

I think one of the most fascinating things about Dune is how it portrays the future of religion. I feel like we have no problem with extrapolating how technical or scientific things might develop in the future, but it’s less common to explore how religion might develop as time goes on.

[wishwewere]

As a Muslim, Dune was so refreshing to watch. Finally a movie where the Muslims have more depth then just Oonga-boonga terrorists.

[BlizzardofKnives]

Me describing Dune Part 1 to my sister before seeing Dune Part 2. “Space Europeans are invading space Arabia because they want space cocaine”.

[cabbytabby]

“Padishah Emperor” is from the Persian language. Padishah means emperor

[Zhm]

As a Muslim, I do not see that the film supports Muslims, or even the writer of the novel, as I believe that it is against Islam and religions, and also against empires. He does not support any party, because what will happen in the third part will be that the new empire will be worse than the previous empire, and also his choice of Islam and not choosing it due to its bad history. With Christianity, therefore, he believes that Islam is more liberal than Christianity. The writer is an atheist and does not praise Islam at all. He believes that religions are myths and a use of politics to liberate occupied peoples or to liberate a religious group to spread its idea. There are many Muslims who do not understand atheistic thought and believe that the film praises Muslims.

[michaelantosch]

One thing that the films conveyed very well was the fact that the Lisan al-Ghaib beliefs of the Fremen were implanted by the Bene Gesserit so that they could "tap into" it and manipulate if they were ever in danger. A major theme of the series, especially as it moves past the first book is how Paul and Lady Jessica stoked the fervor and fanaticism of the Fremen for political/revenge purposes, but it then gets massively out-of-hand and they are unable to keep control of it.

[dan.rivlin]

Just a small theory I had that I wanted to share: "Kwisatz Haderach" could come from "Kfitzat haderech" in Hebrew, which translates to the jumping of paths. It might be a reference to Paul's ability to see and select from multiple future paths.

[Vacuumorph]

Been obsessed with Dune for 4 years now and it’s what sparked my interest in Islam and led me to your channel. Excited to hear your take!

[kayaou]

"Too many houses and Too many names" while knowing all Islamic figures names; arabic pronunciation thier sect, teachers and students.

Edit: it was a complement for his passion on his field of expertise.
I myself never read Dune.

[PilgrimVisions]

One of Herbert's big inspirations for Dune was Lesley Blanch's (now mostly forgotten) popular history book The Sabres of Paradise, which colorfully recounts the wars of the ghazi Imam Shamil in the Caucasus against the Russian Empire. Once you realize his main source for Fremen culture is the Caucasian Imamate, not the more obvious Bedouins, a lot makes sense.

[serenedaoud]

Great video essay, thank you! As a native Arabic speaker, here's a third idea to consider regarding Lissan al-gheib: when i was in grade school in Riyadh, S.A., we had to learn qur'aanic chapters by heart, and the term used for learning something by heart is "7ifiz bil-gheib" . When I first came across the Dune term Lissan al-gheib, that is what stood out for me. Tongue of the Heart

[MrAngryMobster]

I just wanna say you're pronounciation for the islamic terms are absoloutely spot on and really does them justice. Hearing someone let alone a foreigner nail the "gh" sound in "ghaib" or "Rh" sound in "Ruh" is really amazing.

[majidbineshgar]

" Lisan al gheib " is a nickname of Hafez the Persian Poet whom must have been mentioned many times in Henry Corbin's books studied by Herbert .

[kiancuratolo]

I was literally as I finished the moving thinking "I would adore it if Lets Talk Religion Made an Analysis" and have been binging your videos on Islamic practice since the movies release. I am so excited to watch this video.

[artursandwich]

With Paul as Lisan al-Gaib we mustn't forget that he was trained (and mastered) the art of the Voice, which is the 'mystic' ability to influence people's minds and the physical universe by sound waves (which is supposedly also a lost art found in the ancient middle East).

[hamodhossain]

i really love the effort you made to pronounce the Arabic words as close as it is in the original .. even do it has some difficult litters for you .. yet you still made it .. keep it up the great job brother

[CailinRuaAnChead]

On a slightly unrelated note, I saw dune with my dad when it came out and we were discussing how the bene gesserit are morally grey. For context we are both Irish Catholic with experience of the clergy in our schooling.

I said the bene gesserit are out for themselves and no other powers. My dad just said 'they are nuns' and I have never agreed with a statement more. They are the nunny - est nuns that ever did nun, in absolutely every way.

[eve]

Something not mentioned: Herbert's term "Kwizats Haderach" is probably derived from the Hebrew phrase קפיצת הדרך kfitzat haderech, "the shortening of the way", a concept from Judaism but especially Kabbalah referring to someone whose body or mind can be in multiple places at once, or who can miraculously travel far distances.