What makes a song... a SONG??? (ft. @AdamNeely)

Feat. @AdamNeely

Does a song have to have singing? Does a song need lyrics? Does having a topline make it a song? Is a symphony a song? I'm gonna try to answer all these questions today - what makes a song a SONG?

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Edited by Sierra Ehlert

[JuiceboxDesmond]

Rapping and growly/screamy vocals ARE still pitched. They have pitch just like speaking has pitch, and pitch IS important in their delivery. The difference is that these types of vocals are rhythmic as opposed to melodic. Pitch is important in rhythm, its why you gotta tune the drums. Rapping and/or screaming can essentially be though of as a vocal drum solo as a topline.

[michaelbodalski]

I love that you cited Joe Satriani. Surfing with the Alien was a critical piece in my own understanding of what makes music into a song. I regularly listened to the late 80's Shrapnel Records releases, but never engaged with them like I would albums with vocalists, and I figured that missing something was something you needed a singer for, Surfing completely changed that.

[AFRoSHEENTARCMICHAEL]

I think it's the progression used and how it's used. Because it's the bases of the song. A melody usually never stands on it's own and is always supported by the base. Or Bass, it's the foundation and or the fundamental. This is also why people love bass heavy music. I would even consider metal bass heavy because most of them drop tune and put 52-64 gage strings as their low note on their guitars.

[gabofortuna]

Commenting so YouTube knows I liked this video.

Loved the provocative questions and examples! I really hope more people find this, I’ll be sharing this with my students! Thanks for the video

[PERPowns]

Love the philosophical nature of this video. Great insight.

[jacktripperthemusical]

There's a famous modern instrumental song - Metallica's "Orion" - that seems to be an exception to the rule here. It doesn't have a topline, yet it is very popular and fans do not listen to it as if it were just background music.

After thinking about it some, I realized that me and friends who enjoy this song - and therefore i assume many others - hum the guitar riffs, so it seems there is a case to be made here that well-defined riffs CAN serve as a topline.

Thoughts?

Link to the song:

[BleuRoseDesigns]

This is a really interesting thought, about what defines a song! 🤔

[hugh]

This was a really significant insight! Brilliant!

[h.markhorton]

A song starts somewhere. Goes somewhere. Ups and downs ( hello Paul Revere). Winds up somewhere. Leaves the listener with feelings, they may not even be aware of.

[Tomileemusic]

*riff salads not songs ✅*
Thanks for more great content Trey ! 🤘🏻
And all hail Kenneth 🤣

[Just-Michael]

The simplest idea that I could come up with when I saw the title for the video, was that a song is a story told through music. And you can tell your story in many different ways. It doesn't have to follow a structure, it doesn't need vocals, it doesn't even need proper instruments, as shown in the intro of this video. If a piece of music can effectively get across a point, then it's a song. A bunch of random riffs don't really make a song because they're not making a point. There's no build up and climax and resolution to their story. If their point is to feel stuck in place, like a treadmill, then perhaps an argument could be made for that. 😂

[jarrodhroberson]

Cocteau Twins we’re the OG study music for me in art school. No words definitely songs.

[GitKlar]

Andrew Huang has entered the chat in the intro.
Heck yeah, Adam is the man. He's even in an instrumental band (Sungazer), so a good resource for instrumental song-writing hints & tips, too.
3:18 when I took music in high-school, Beethoven and most classical composers' symphonies in general weren't considered as songs. Symphonies (especially from the classical era) had a distinct structure (sonata-form), that is very different from e.g. a pop-song.
3:27 effing aced that passage! I'm impressed, gotta say.
9:23 8-bit music will happily prove you wrong. Soundtracks are very flexible in the way they get used, and depending on that they can be more or less of a song. A lot of composers also brought up the issue with the lack of melody, and music getting thrown in the background too much.
Great insight though, and cool to discuss something seemingly obvious in more detail.

[denniskielton]

Expanding on the melody part Adam mentioned, most instrumental songs (at least the good ones that are successful) HAVE melody. Specifically, they always have a melody that replaces the top line of the song, ie the vocals. Repetition validates any random sou8nd into music after about the 3rd time through, seen scientists prove this many times. There IS an actual legal definition of a song, which Adam Neely mentions in his video on the history of musical copyrights. Also pretty interesting. But the legal definition states a couple things that plenty of modern songs don't include, especially weird experimental stuff. I think like You kinda say Trey, it's more about the story, or in my opinion the focal point. A song IS the thing, it's not the background. It's what separates instrumentals from background music, it's either background or it's the main point. And songs have that precedence. And typically, it's the top line that portrays that. It's hard to imagine an exception to having a good top line.

[worksofein]

I think you've nailed it with the story telling aspect. There is a lovely passage in one of the "science of the discworld" books by Terry Pratchett where he talks about humans just being apes that tell stories about the world and that's what separates us from animals.

Also, you should check out the video of researchers talking in the voice of neanderthals. They used fossils to recreate the voice box and vocal cords, then worked out how they may have sounded. If it's correct, they had pretty unique voices that are nothing like how you imagine a neanderthal would sound.

[john_mclucas]

damn this is great, i love that youre taking the time to dissect a lot of nuance that gets lost in shorter form content. you fab

[Arkansya]

historically and culturally songs were made to be sang, remembered and resang, collectively : religious songs, work songs, among which early blues or mariner songs, soldier songs... to be a proper song you have to draw something from this cultural grounding somehow, and the topline melody, the memorable melody is a way to do it. best example is how 7 nation army or we will rock you became stadium hymns

[SwnkyTiger]

A song is a song, if it is intended to be a song. Anything else is a qualifier, some attempted control over subjectivity and at worst gate-keeping. In this way I don't see it any different than other forms of art. To me, a song is a performance/arrangement with an intent, that uses rhythm and (or) pitch to hopefully achieve an intention. This is regardless to what the intention itself is, the instrumentation used (or not used) or the perceived 'quality' of the piece. I don't necessarily think trying to define something so subjective is a productive venture. Although I really enjoy the opposite, I always enjoy being exposed to songs or sounds that broaden my understanding of "what is music". While this is an interesting topic, I'm not sure the discourse will be as interesting as simply thinking about it and appreciating music in its MANY various forms. However I would enjoy a video demonstrating examples that have influenced your understanding.

[micahperrego]

You are a gift to the world of diy musicians

[DEADLINETV]

It's an interesting topic, for sure! And although I kinda feel a definition of a song, there really isn't one. I still wonder though, like Metallica (and many, many other bands) write their riffs first and add vocal lines after. So is the the song without vocals riffsalad? And, to stay with this band, a track like Orion, is that a song?