THE TETRARCHS OF ULTRAMAR! GUILLIMAN'S BIGGEST MISTAKE?

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're discussing the Triarchs of Ultramar, as we ask if Guilliman's decision to bring these ancient positions back is a mistake?

General Spoiler Warning to begin as today we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe. So you have been warned!

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[apacheFX]

I think Guilli as a logistician realizes he needs a stable base to deploy from, rely, and resupply from. His motives and everything else derives from that necessity.

[davidmiddleton]

Reintroducing the Tectrachs is a tricky strategy, and very unpopular from those planetary govenors effected. Still, Guilliman is under utilizing Calgar's abilities. He is still the most recognised Ultramarine.

[sasquatchandme]

I've always liked the concept of Ultramar in the lore. The empire within the empire. Space Rome. However, I'm more interested in the pre-Crusade Ultramar than the current one. They had a 500 world interstellar empire established when Big E showed up. Big E was dependant on the Adeptus Mechanicus for his Crusade, but Ultramar had a bustling scientific community before joining the Imperium that did not hold to the backwards dogma of techpriests. What happened to them? How did Ultramar manage an interstellar empire during the Time of Strife? Or did they build their empire within the window of time between the ending of the Warp storms and the arrival of Big E? I have so many questions.

[sircashew]

“But the Emperor never intended it!” Ya, he didn’t intend y’all to worship him as a god either, but look where we are now. It’s my job to bring the Imperium back from the edge you allowed it to go to and devolve into. I wanted to do this the nice way, but you wanted to be greedy and more worried about your own power than the greater good of the Imperium. I made Ultramar into what it was at its peak, YOU allowed it to degrade as far as it did, despite still being the jewel of the imperium

[madmerlinsart]

Guilliman has always used Ultramar as a testing ground for how to run an Empire. Going back to the Heresy and his attempt at forming a second imperium. I think if this works he'll expand it to other sectors and give over more direct regional control to the Astartes. I know I reference this a lot, but what he said to Kantor upon meeting with the Crimson Fists and reinforcing them with Primaris "Look to your chapter Pedro, for the Imperium can ill afford to lose such defenders as you. My brother(Dorn) would be proud." or something to that effect, .

On the other topic, yeah I can see that announcing such powerful numbers directly under his control, could cause an up-stir. It's because of the Inquisition and how they dictate what knowledge is allowed into the common imperium that everyone is afraid. I think keeping them as chapters is the right thing to do, but having it a Legion size amount was wrong. If he'd announced just 5 chapters with one being a rebirth of a destroyed chapter that would have been more welcomed.

I think the Emperor scolded Guilliman for breaking the Legions originally which is why he's been secretive about what transpired, so now he's working to undo that but because of the state of the Imperium, it's not going down well with the people.

[vancemurphy]

G's gonna push a pencil. And the Dark Angels are technically still a legion and Dante has a legion at his command if you count all the chapters helping him right now.

[inquisitorgarza]

The reason why many mortal have a right to fear the Legion isn’t because of a lack of loyalty, but the perception that why Ultramar may be a Jewel within the Realm of the Imperium that does not makes it irreplaceable to it, and the idea that Guilliman was putting to much power within his own Realm rather than the protection of the rest of the Imperium, because while Ten Thousand Space Marines on paper may not seemed like much in the grand scheme of things that still Ten Chapter who are fully supplied and ready to defend a small territory of the Imperium swore to him.

[eviljagtech]

With the threats to the Imperium it would make sense to create a power base with all the threats in the area. This would make things easier to defend and fight against enemies. While I can see how this will look bad, with the current state of things though, I different strategy my work better.

[Mr.Brownstain-xfne]

Tetrarchs are a brilliant idea, you would want capable, loyal people in charge, not only that, by relegating power to different leaders means if 1 falls they don't all fall

[NigraeLegiones]

Mentioning the emperor making them more pissed off makes sense, especially if they were thinking in terms of the primarchs and legions is what lead the imperium to its current state. Mentioning the emperor would only remind them that it was a Primarch that caused the emperors current state.

[thewaver]

TBH, 10k Space Marines is less than a tenth of what he used to marshal back in the day...

[-MarcelDavis-]

I don't understand the reaction of the people from an in lore perspective and I think it doesn't make sense at all:

1: How come some space marines have trouble even looking the primarch in the eyes and a regular woman is talking back, even screaming at the primarch?
2: He's the Lord Regent. He has the authority to command any chapter anyway, not just his sons. Why does it suddenly matter that he stationed 8 in Ultramar while de facto commanding every other chapter in existence? It doesn't even sound unreasonable to have more than 1 chapter in such a vast part of the Imperium. It's a segmentum(?) Or the next smaller subdevision of imperial space (which should logically have more than 1 chapter guarding it anyway)
3: The High Lords could and have done the same thing, so that's not even new. They've launched entire crusades and put them under the authority of single individuals or shuffled around marines and their home worlds. Normal humans have had controle over more than just 8 chapters.
4: They are not even part of the same chapter. They don't even function as a legion, they all have their own region of space to protect like any other chapter.
5: Most people see him as the son of god and therefore embodying his devine will. It just doesn't make sense for them to question his judgement.
5, 5: on that note, the Imperium is kind of a religious terror regime (just a little bit), so voicing your opposition to the son of god so openly sounds like a good way to get trialed for treason or killed outright.
6: I don't think adding 8.000 marines would cause such a strong reaction from people when he already has hundreds of thousands in his indomitus crusade.
(7: Ultramar must be an exceptionally peaceful region when one chapter was able to safeguard 500 worlds while in other books 2 chapters can't defend 2 worlds)
Putting that one in brackets because numbers have never made sense in the 40k universe anyway and I honestly don't care that much about that. It's just something you ahve to accept in 40k.

Again, I don't try to question the lore too much because there are a lot of things that don't make sense outside of 40k lore but that one doesn't even make sense within the lore to me. In fact, it probably makes more sense outside the lore. In our world people might have the gall to talk to a someone in Guillimans position like that and make such accusations but I don't see it happening within the lore.

[PapaFunDip]

I really wish Gman would take an eraser and erase the 1000 limit line on the codex astartes. "There you go i've updated the rules"

[jonharrison]

One might point out that Horus’s fall began when he learned that ordinary humans would be ruling the imperium and its worlds instead of Primarchs and Space Marines.

And all marines raised in the post-heresy period are taught that they were created to defend humanity, not to rule over it. RG is breaking his own rules, to say nothing of the Emperor’s.

[tobydawes]

I think that the techrachy was and is a good thing as it ensured efficient and effective governance

[gawkthimm]

but there are many hundreds of chapter masters that rule over human planets, and its even mentioned in the new lore with the rift that its even more common for whole sub-ssectors of Imperium Nihilus to sign over their worlds to chapter masters control... then why are TETRARCHS such a problem?...

[AaronDalroy]

It makes me wonder what Guilliman would think of the Badab War

[daniels]

Not as if the Imperium was a democracy prior to the Heresy. The Emperor was never very good at practicing what he preached. The key here is that the Imperium is not stable. It is facing serious threats on multiple fronts and normal humans simply cannot handle these threats. If they want to be fed into the meat grinder then by all means. But, if they want to *survive* they have to accept that godlike enemies means that you need godlike heroes.

[panos]

The Tectrachs of Guilliman are base from the Tectrachy of the Roman Empire.

[lordtritus]

Guilliman having the flaw of being too controlling for his own good should stay. People already go around with the idea that Guilliman is best Primarch cuz Ultramar and Ultramarines. Also don't forget the very fact that so many of these nobles just cannot fathom that a legendary son of the God Emperor have decided that they do not have absolute control. Their inherited arrogance would never allow any of this without being outraged, no matter who. It is already well-known that people tend to be too dense to accept anything that isn't to their sole advantage.
Also, the Highlords plotting to assassinate him should have already been a clear sign that these "people" will oppose him at almost every turn and every little decision.